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Nach dem letzten Desaster sind ja auch ein paar Köpfe gerollt... Aber irgendwie ist es auch beruhigend, dass überall nur Menschen arbeiten, die höchst menschliche Fehler machen.

Absolut unnoetige, weil vermeidbare Fehler. Tergram, es war damals eine "Erleuchtung", wie JPL und die NASA reagiert haben: mehr Pruefungen einfuehren, damit so ein Fehler das naechste Mal (hoffentlich) bemerkt wird. Nicht aber, was was Lorelle Young, Vorsitzende der U.S. Metric Association, danach gefordert hat:

"The loss of Climate Orbiter brings up the "untenable" position of the United States in relation to most other countries, which rely on the metric system for measurement. She was not surprised at the error that arose.

"In this day and age when the metric system is the measurement language of all sophisticated science, two measurements systems should not be used," Young said.

"Only the metric system should be used because that is the system science uses," she said.

Bei der Entscheidung haben beide Organisationen einen Grundsatz aus den Augen verloren: man kann Qualitaet nicht nachtraeglich "in ein Produkt hineintesten" bzw. kann so nur unter hohen Kosten eine gewisse Verbesserung der Qualitaet erreichen. Sie muss schon im Entwurf (Design) beruecksichtigt werden. Die Chance, dass so etwas wieder passiert, besteht weiterhin.

Das Beharrungsvermoegen ist beachtlich, wenn Du Dir die Geschichte anschaust. Erstmals in 1893 haben die U.S.A. das metrische System als Norm einfuehren wollen.

Verzeihung, das Oberthema heisst ja "Neuapostolische Kirche". Daran ist wieder nur 'deaconess' schuld, warum schreibt sie auch im NACboard ueber das JPL?

[tergram]

Verzeihung, das Oberthema heisst ja "Neuapostolische Kirche". Daran ist wieder nur 'deaconess' schuld, warum schreibt sie auch im NACboard ueber das JPL?

Danke für die Infos. Um den Bogen zum Thema wieder zu kriegen:

Die aus europäischer Sicht zumeist recht unproblematische Verknüpfung zwischen Glaube und Wissenschaft scheint in den USA eine ganz andere Dimension zu haben. Wie siehst du das als Kenner der USA-Mentalität? Wie geht man innerhalb der USA-NAC damit um?

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tergram, da muss ich im Grunde passen, weil ich hoechstens meine Meinung schildern koennte. Die ist, dass dort eine staerkere Polarisierung als hier herrscht zwischen Kreationisten und Darwinisten.

Es war in der Vergangenheit auf jeden Fall ungewoehnlich, im NACboard tiefschuerfende Debatten zu finden, im Gegensatz zum gk-Forum und auch diesem hier. Der Austausch im NACboard bewegt sich sonst eher an der Oberflaeche des taeglich Erlebbaren in der NAC. Ich glaube, es gibt zu wenige Diskussionspartner im NACboard, die sich mit Themen wie diesen beschaeftigen, deswegen versanden solche Diskussionen schnell wieder.

Ja, lass uns zurueck zum derzeit aktuellen Thema in der NAC NA kommen: Teilnehmer am StAp-GD haben inzwischen im NACboard weitere Eindruecke geschildert.

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Auch eine wahrscheinlich wenig genutzte Methode, den Mittwochgottesdienst nach einem StAp-GD zu gestalten:

Beginn mit Gesang und Gebet, dann bilden sich Gruppen mit je einem Moderator; die Gruppen sprechen ueber ihre Eindruecke, an was sie sich erinnern, wie sie bestimmte Aussagen aufgefasst haben oder interpretieren. Vor dem Schluss des "GD" mit Abendmahl und Gebet berichten die Moderatoren in zusammengefasster Form, was ihre Gruppe besprochen hat.

(aus einer Gemeinde in den USA)

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StAp Gottesdienst in Pasadena, CA Statistik:

The "Modern Chief Apostle Visit" had an approx. attendance of 1050.

When Chief Apostle Fehr was in Los Angeles in 2000 that was about the same attendance. But, only LA was invited to it. Just 8 years later, we have the same attendance but with the entire West Coast (Calif., Oregon, Washington) including Arizona, San Francisco, and ANYONE that wanted to attend could. There were MORE faces there that I didn't recognize than ones that I did. And, the "After-glow" picnic on Memorial Day... there were more out-of-towners at the picnic than members. And that is because..... ?

"deaconess" im NACboard

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Auch eine wahrscheinlich wenig genutzte Methode, den Mittwochgottesdienst nach einem StAp-GD zu gestalten:

Beginn mit Gesang und Gebet, dann bilden sich Gruppen mit je einem Moderator; die Gruppen sprechen ueber ihre Eindruecke, an was sie sich erinnern, wie sie bestimmte Aussagen aufgefasst haben oder interpretieren. Vor dem Schluss des "GD" mit Abendmahl und Gebet berichten die Moderatoren in zusammengefasster Form, was ihre Gruppe besprochen hat.

(aus einer Gemeinde in den USA)

Nachtrag, diesmal aus dem NACboard:

Modern CA service "revisited"

I went to the Wednesday evening service in another NAC congregation (not mine), and what I saw there was a bit unsettling. The service began in the usual way, choir prelude, moment of silence, emblem light up...etc. However, the minister instead of beginning a "sermon" came down in front of the altar with a handful of notes from the Sunday service, which BTW, I had also begrudgingly attended in mid-afternoon on a holiday weekend,(because the relatives I was visiting insisted on going, Ugh). The notes were typed beautifully with bullet points etc.

The ushers then handed out copies of these notes and the minister made a feeble attempt to facilitate a discussion of the service. Since most of the people in attendance had been there, it seemed kinda lame to me. WTF? When I asked my relatives what the heck was this all about, I got the look: What? You don't do THIS, following every CA service? Well, actually, I do not!

Basically it was a rehash with subtle spins here and there. After about a half hour of this, the minister asked the choir to sing and then spoke for about 5-10 minutes and began communion, as usual.

I have thought about this since then. What purpose did it serve? I WAS THERE (via transmission)! WHY DO I NEED TO HEAR IT REPEATED? Isn't it bad enough that we have to hear it over and over from the ministers for the next 6 months? Was this done anywhere else?

NR

Aus dem NACboard

Am Telefon hat es sich das Konzept ein wenig ueberzeugender angehoert.

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Let's Do the Twist!

June 2, 2008

from New Apostolic Church, Divine Service Guide, Sunday, 1 June "The Apostle ministry -- a gift from God":

* the Apostle ministry
The Lord Jesus expressly stated: "As the Father has sent Me, I also send you" (John 20:21). Although this passage does not explicitly use the term "Apostles", but rather "disciples" or "the Twelve", it is our conviction that He was actually referring to the Apostles -- and to them alone.

Dear Chief Apostle Leber:

The incident which is relayed in the scripture that is quoted does not use apostles, nor does it use "the Twelve" to describe who was present during Jesus' commissioning. If you reread the passage, "the Twelve" is used only to clearly identify which Thomas the author is referring to. The "Twelve" is not used in any way in this passage to identify those present. The only term used is the Greek word "mathetes", which is translated into English as "disciple". Nowhere in the scripture that was quoted is the Greek word "apostolos" used (translated as "apostle). It is further supported that more than just the apostles received Jesus' commissioning if you read Luke's reporting of the events of that same day and evening, in Luke 24:13-53.

In those passages, Luke tells of the two disciples on the road to Emmaus, and how their hearts burned within as they slowly recognized that it had been Jesus that had accompanied them and supped with them. Having experienced this, they immediately ran to Jerusalem that evening and as Luke reports, "they found eleven AND their companions gathered together". The two disciples remained for the rest of the evening, and were present when Jesus arrived.

If you do the math, 11 plus the two disciples plus the companions is MORE than the twelve.

Please forgive my bluntness in all of this, but how does one justify twisting scripture in this manner... saying, "It is our conviction that He was actually referring to the Apostles -- and to them alone"? And now, because of Divine Service Guide, ministers have proceeded to spread these untruths to members in their congregations. Perhaps you have trusted your church theologians to have reviewed these "lessons" prior to release... but it doesn't take a theologian in this case to understand that what was taught was wishful thinking and a poor attempt to find justification for our doctrine where there wasn't any. In studying these verses it becomes clear that Jesus sent MORE than just the apostles into the world... and that He also commissioned MORE than just the apostles to forgive/remit sins -- as John reports occurred on that very same evening... in that very same room.... to those very same disciples.

With love and many, many yet unanswered questions,

Gayle Theilacker
Los Angeles Central Congregation

Aus dem NACboard

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Reform!

My local congregation was given permission.... with Dist. Ap. Freund's approval.... to wear business attire on Wednesday evenings (except for the choir members that are ABs... they still have to wear black n white).

This was approved on a several month trial basis only, with the intent to review its affect (if any) on the congregation after that period of time.

Deaconess chreibt ueber den Chor in ihrer Gemeinde; in den USA tragen sonst die SaengerInnen in jedem GD schwarz/weiss.

Glossar: AB = administration brother
Aus dem NACbaord

"LACNAC" erklaert, wie es zustande kam:

Because of the Modern Congregation initiative, I raised the issue with our Dist Elder. Part of the reason was given work conditions and traffic in SoCal, if choir members couldcome dressed in work (business) clothes as opposed to rushing home, changing, or having to bring b&w with them to work, it would make for a less "rushed" experience and they could actually come into church and "prepare" for service instead of feeling so hurried. The DE said he woud have to ask the Apostle, to which we got into a bit of a disagreement about that being contrary to the whole modern congregation concept (but whatever). The Ap Kolb ran it by the DA and we received approval to try it on a "trial" basis. Ap Kolb was in LA Central on Wed, May 21 and our choir sang sans b&w (except for AB's) and I discussed it with Ap Kolb afterwards. He understood the reasoning for the request and said we would see how it went.

(Ein paar Eintraege spaeter).

Glossar: SoCal = Southern California (where it never rains )

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"Knot Lost" stellt nach dem "Osnabrueck Gedaechtnisgottesdienst" am 1. Juni 2008 fest:

As I read more on the other threads I see that the Divine Service Guide seemed to contain all of the points of debate from the Osnabrueck service. How anyone can read through these points and not see the exclusivity oozing out is beyond me. I personally see the Osnabrueck service as a blessing. It came at a time when my wife and I had many questions regarding the doctrines of the NAC. The Osnabrueck service came along and answered those questions, point by point. ...
Aus dem NACboard

"Knot Lost" besucht nicht mehr die Gottesdienste in der NAC.

Glossar: Divine Service Guide: Leitgedanken

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Fellowship "Kuchen"
Aus dem NACboard bzw. hier / hier.
Diese Kirche heute noch kein Rezept, mit der Botschaft umzugehen - es darf sie einfach nicht geben.

Ueber die Aktion an sich kann man geteilter Ansicht sein.